[personal profile] leavethesky
So, I started watching this show a few months ago with the gf and got completely engaged. I know, you'd think a hyper leftie pinko commie like me would NEVER like a show like this, but it is surprisingly... progressive? I know, I know. It boggles the mind. Also, hot, capable women killing and blowing shit up is always going to be my kink. But the last ep of the last season, WTF show? And why did no one warn me (I'm looking at you [livejournal.com profile] ralst!)?

Jo and Ros (possibly) killed off in the same season?!? No, show. Just. No. Not even Ruth is enough to save you from my wrath if Ros is dead. Connie last season in the most OOC story arc OF ALL TIME and now this? You will be dead to me, show. Just like Ros. And Jo. Who were starting to have such slashy moments. I guess that meant they had to die.

Also, no one bought the Lucas/whateverhernameisCIAagent(Sarah?) love that came out of nowhere and had no chemistry at all did they? Wrongness.

Date: 2010-03-10 08:06 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jaybee65.livejournal.com
I've been a fan of MI-5 for ages! And I'm a diehard lefty, too. The show is too absurd to treat realistically (a handful of people in Section D manage to do *all* of MI-5's important work!), so it doesn't bother me politically. And they've had a whole sequence of marvelously 3-D female characters, Ros being the pinnacle of bad-assery, in my opinion. (There was even a bit of femslash written for the very first couple of seasons, focusing on Tessa/Zoe. I think there's even an entry on ship_manifesto for them.)

However...S8 might be my last, unless they add a new and interesting female character. Ruth isn't enough, just by her lonesome.

Date: 2010-03-10 11:08 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] leavethesky.livejournal.com
Part of the problem for me is that I felt like we finally got a woman in command and she's gone. Like they were getting her out of the way so Lucas could claim his rightful place at the top (under harry anyway)! It didn't help that Ross has been my absolute fav. Except when they wrench her out of character like that sudden Adam/Ros thing that just sort of came out of nowhere. I was so fucking happy when she reappeared after the staged death.

I LOVE how ridiculous the show is (yeah, one section apparently works around 24/7 to do EVERYTHING all the time!!). I have to admit that I love the way they portray the U.S. as this world bully that's usually up to no good.

I've only seen from S5 through the current season so I can't say that I'm an expert...yet.

Love the icon btw. I NEED a Ros icon.

Date: 2010-03-10 11:49 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jaybee65.livejournal.com
Part of the problem for me is that I felt like we finally got a woman in command and she's gone. Like they were getting her out of the way so Lucas could claim his rightful place at the top (under harry anyway)!

Oh, absolutely. It's a huge disappointment to lose her, not just because she's one of my favorite television characters EVER, but for just that reason.

In fact, having seen all 8 seasons, I have become even more aware of the show's flaws...the blatant recycling of storylines from earlier seasons, the skeevy treatment of female characters over the age of, say, 45 (they're all eeeevil!), the fact that they permit no more than one character of color at a time (always male, and very carefully alternating from Black to South Asian to Black to South Asian)...and so on. I kept watching for the characters -- or rather, for *certain* characters -- but as they disappear, the annoyance factor of the show's negative aspects starts to get too high.

Lucas is less annoying than Adam, and Adam (for me) was less annoying than Tom, but I don't watch for the male leads. And while none of the other female characters has compared to Ros, at least they have had a fairly decent variety of them over the years. If you're a fan of Jo, for example, you might enjoy Season 4, where she was introduced. Watching the shift from who she was when she started out to who she was at the end is actually really moving: of all the characters of the series, I think her character changed and developed the most, and in ways that were both plausible and heartbreaking.

Date: 2010-03-11 12:13 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] leavethesky.livejournal.com
Yeah I completely feel you on the race/ethnicity issues on the show. Very, very disturbing. On the rare occasions a women appears who is non-white I know that she is 1. probably evil 2. going to die or worse 3. going to have sex with Adam and disappear...disgusting. When so much of their operations involve people who are non-white, immigrants, etc. (and not always as adversaries, which I do like about the show) the idea that they would not have one woman of south-asian or African descent is just fucking ridiculous. Or just a woman who is not caucasian. I mean, does anyone on the show even speak Arabic anymore? Or Farsi? Or anything other than English? I always felt like they wasted Zaff who could have been incredibly interesting, but no. We get reams of Adam and his manpain instead.

The recycling of storylines has just gotten ridiculous. Every ep has pretty much the same arc with very little variation. It's their last seasons, you'd think they'd start to experiment because why not?


Date: 2010-03-11 12:19 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] leavethesky.livejournal.com
the skeevy treatment of female characters over the age of, say, 45 (they're all eeeevil!)

Also, this! Ros is clearly older and still kicks serious ass and this was such an incredible find that I overlooked the fact that this show has a TERRIBLE track record. Even with Ros who also had her own eeeevil arc(s). The Connie thing? Fucking offensive. Not to mention Harry's superior who is suddenly behind the supersekrit eeevil. And has since disappeared. Whatever.
Edited Date: 2010-03-11 12:20 am (UTC)

Date: 2010-03-11 12:53 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jaybee65.livejournal.com
First it was Tessa (before your time), and that was fine, because (1) she was snarky and funny; (2) she got the last laugh at Harry's expense; and (3) she was the first such character, so it wasn't a pattern. Then there was Juliet going from sort-of-evil-but-basically-one-of-the-good-guys in S4 (and 5, to the extent she showed up at all) to suddenly super!villain! in S6 -- which I tolerated only because her Ros-like acid tongue had charmed me so much in S4. But by Connie, it was clearly one of the show's serious hangups, and I was just disgusted. And that's not even mentioning guest stars like Angela Wells (season finale of S4)! Gah.

Date: 2010-03-10 08:37 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ralst.livejournal.com
Sorry. In my defence, I'm still in denial about Ros, and won't believe she's gone until we see her grave... and even then I'll still have my doubts. It took me a little while to warm up to Ros but once I did she became one of my favourite Spooks characters, ever.

Series seven and the beginning of eight saw Jo finally come into her own, and I loved the vibe I started to get from Ros/Jo before, and after, her death. I know I did rant about that one.

The Lucas/Sarah relationship/storyline was terrible - the only time it got interesting was when she threw her boss over the railings - and a poor copy of the Tom/Christine relationship from series two (and I hated that... Tom beat Adam to be my least favourite character).

I love that Ruth's back and I remain a diehard Ruth/Harry shipper, but they need to convince Hermione Norris to come back, because the show needs Ros.

Thus speaks another leftie.

Date: 2010-03-10 11:12 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] leavethesky.livejournal.com
I totally get the Ros denial. The gf or I will just suddenly at random moments, "Ros had better not be dead." Because really. I was totally on the fence about Ros as well, but she won me over with her ass-kickingness.

Yeah, I wasn't a Jo lover in the beginning, but she slowly became someone I could get behind. And the new, totally hot haircut didn't hurt :) I was so worried they were going to go Jo/Adam that I just didn't give her the time of day.

Adam was just TERRIBLE! His manpain, his wooden acting, his whatever they were...spells? Just ridiculous. And I loved how his son would disappear altogether and then suddenly become VERY IMPORTANT

ACK! this just posted without any prompting from me. It's Spooks!! In my LJ!

I do love Ruth and despite my total dyke glasses, I get the Ruth/Harry. Even though I want her to be gay for Ros. Because, isn't everyone?

YOur icon? Is that Ruth or the same actress in another show? We actually started watching Spooks for her. We'd seen her as a kickass detective in another show and LOVED her.
Edited Date: 2010-03-10 11:14 pm (UTC)

Date: 2010-03-10 11:56 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ralst.livejournal.com
YOur icon? Is that Ruth or the same actress in another show? We actually started watching Spooks for her. We'd seen her as a kickass detective in another show and LOVED her.

Yes, that's Ruth.

I watched some or possibly all of the first series, and didn't think that much of it, but a couple of years later I was flicking channels and saw Nicola Walker sitting on a bus and was powerless to turn away (I loved her in Finding Evil, Chalk and Moll Flanders). From that moment on I've been a Spooks fan and a Ruth/Harry shipper - the subtlety with which they built the relationship was something a lot of shows (including this one - Ros/Adam was pathetically stupid) could learn from, although the writers have admitted that was down to the actors and they didn't cotton on until after the public started getting behind the pair.

Have you seen the first couple of series? Because as bad as Adam was, I think Tom was worse, although to hear some of the fans talk, you'd think the sun shone out of his behind.

Date: 2010-03-11 12:03 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] leavethesky.livejournal.com
Finding Evil!! Yes! That was the show. She was just incredible. We both fell completely in love. Even made up for what'shisname who's in EVERYTHING.

We started watching with S4 (netflix) and only because of Nicola Walker and the promise of Hermione Norris in later seasons. Srsly. Nicola Walker is the only reason we started watching spooks. Love that it was the actors and the subtext they were creating that the viewers picked up on and that ultimately shaped the storyline. Great story. And truly great acting. Particularly if you'd seen her first as a tough, swoon-worthy detective in Finding Evil.

We tried a couple of eps from the first seasons and just...meh. Yeah, Tom is just...Fail. We were thinking about watching them as an antidote to no more Spooks, but IDK.

Date: 2010-03-11 12:14 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ralst.livejournal.com
I've never bothered to re-watch series one when it's been on telly but I own all the other series and there are some good episodes and stories in there. Ruth joins in the second episode of series two, I think, and slowly becomes a bigger and bigger part of the show.

Zoe is an interesting character. She's no Ros but then, who is? Danny also had his moments, although of the 'we must have one non-white character, stat' group, Zaf is by far my favourite.

It's also fun to play 'she played gay in...?' when they introduce new female characters, as it seems to be a casting criteria (except for Hermione Norris, but I think they just confused her with Helena Baxendale).

Date: 2010-03-11 12:22 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] leavethesky.livejournal.com
It's also fun to play 'she played gay in...?'

Wait! Does this mean Nicola Walker played gay?!?! I knew there was a Tipping the Velvet star in the earlier seasons (Zoe?), but if Nicola Walker played gay, I am so all over that!!

Date: 2010-03-11 12:30 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ralst.livejournal.com
Two Tipping the Velvet actors, one All My Children actor, more I can't remember off hand, and Nicola Walker from Moll Flanders. It wasn't a big part, but she got to kiss Alex Kingston, so it counts *g*.

Date: 2010-03-11 12:59 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jaybee65.livejournal.com
Jumping in here because of this:

Because as bad as Adam was, I think Tom was worse, although to hear some of the fans talk, you'd think the sun shone out of his behind.

You are NOT alone. Tom was a whiny baby, in my opinion. Adam wallowed in mangst, too, by the end, but at least he had a canon excuse for it (and he had even started out with somewhat of a sense of humor). Still, Ros/Adam was forced and absurd.

Date: 2010-03-11 10:34 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ralst.livejournal.com
Absolutely.

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